NON-FICTION – FEATURE STORY PROFILE: Psyched: Cheryl Hines on Acting, Reacting, and the Kennedy Blessing

PSYCHED: Cheryl Hines on Acting, Reacting, and the Kennedy Blessing

by David Lefkowitz

(This article was first published in Long Island Woman, Sept. 2017)

So you’re a talented, attractive young girl growing up in Florida with ambitions to move to California and be a professional actress. We can guess how that scenario plays out 98 percent of the time: part-time jobs, near misses, small parts, and giving up when it’s time to start a family or settle on a fallback career. Then there’s the one percent who make a decent living thanks to union benefits, commercials and voice overs, and the occasional widely seen role. That leaves a last one percent for the few who hit the big time of red carpets, fortune, and fame.

Sliver off a fraction of that last percent, and you have Cheryl Hines, who didn’t start racking up IMDB credits until her late twenties yet now is famous, not only for playing Cheryl David on Curb Your Enthusiasm, but for marrying into American royalty. In 2014, the tanned and toned 52-year-old, who knew she wanted to be a professional actress even before she spent her high school years submerged in theater, married Robert F. Kennedy, son of the late Senator Bobby Kennedy and nephew of America’s 35^th president, JFK.

Not bad for a woman whose first credit was Swamp Thing (not the movie, the TV series), and whose big break emerged from watching faux husband Larry David create impossible situations and then shovel himself in deeper. When we spoke by phone in early summer, Hines had recently wrapped the ninth season of Curb, as well as the movie sequel, A Bad Moms Christmas (due out Nov. 3). Not surprising for someone who is now ensconced in a political family, Hines answered most questions in a slow, measured cadence as if weighing every phrase. And yet, her laughter punctuated the responses, and the overall impression was of a woman who appreciates her good fortune while understanding that staying lucky takes just as much effort as struggling.

LI WOMAN: Did performing in high school theater bring you to the next level in terms of your acting ambitions?

CHERYL HINES: When I played a student in The Children’s Hour, I learned so much from that experience. Even though I was still in high school, I was working with some of the Florida State University students, and they were so good. Everybody was very professional, and the director was great. He made us show up in character—so I don’t even think he knew my name! But he taught us that you have to show up and know your lines, and come in character, and know how your character looks and walks and talks and reacts to different things, and think about your character when you’re not onstage. It was a great experience for me.

 

And yet, almost conversely to all that preparation, you ended up as a member of the Groundlings improvisation and sketch troupe.

Sure, but the fundamental idea of improv is listening to your scene partner. Because there’s no script, all you can do is listen and respond. That idea carries through in any type of acting because it’s really about you, as a character, comprehending what the other person just said and reacting to it. I think a lot of acting classes stress the text and writing of a scene, which is understandable and important. As an actor, you really have to multi-task: your lines, your blocking, where you’re gonna stand or sit, how you’re gonna use props. But you shouldn’t lose the spontaneity of a moment that could be created. If you’re thinking too much about your next line, are you really listening to what that other person is saying?

 

That approach must have been helpful when you auditioned for Curb. I assume you didn’t get “sides.”

CH: Right, there was no script; it was all improvisation. I had never met Larry or Jeff Garlin or any of the gang before that moment. So that was an experience, and I was auditioning for an HBO project, which was exciting. But at the time, it was only a one-hour special, so I didn’t think it would change my life. I thought it would be great to get that job, but it didn’t feel like testing for a network TV show. So I felt relaxed about it. I just started improvising with Larry, and we really clicked.

 

Did he give you any cues about your character?

I was told that Cheryl has heard it all from him and that she doesn’t take any of his shit! That was all I got. It was just one audition, and my agent called me later that day and told me I got the job. Which never happens in this business!

 

Speaking of jobs, your pre-success labors included waitressing and being a phone operator, but also an enviable personal-assistant gig.

Yes, for Rob Reiner and his wife, Michele. And I had a really good time doing that. It was still stressful, don’t get me wrong (laughs). But they were very supportive of my career. At the time, I was still going through the Groundlings school, and [the Reiners] would come to all of my shows. So I had a really great relationship with them. Even though I was doing seemingly mindless errands—like picking up dry cleaning—they understood that I was working to become an actress. And that meant a lot to me.

 

Rob Reiner has produced and directed his share of movies and TV shows. How did you stop yourself from saying, “Um, can you throw me a bone, please?”

(laughs) The temptation is great. But I also knew when I took the job that that was not going to be part of the dynamic. Everyone in Los Angeles is an actor or writer, so in order to have a job where you’re working with somebody who is already established in the business, you must understand the boundaries, or you’ll always be frustrated. With any job, if you do it with integrity, the people around you will see who you are and what your character is made of.

These days, I’m friends with Rob and Michele, and we go out to dinner. We’ve become more like peers.

 

And if you hadn’t made it as an actress, you might have been . . .?

A psychologist. I really am interested in people and how they think and adjust to the complications of life.

 

You’ve mentioned in previous interviews that a psychology course you took in high school really affected you—especially in terms of ruminating on human mortality.

Part of the course was a death-and-dying seminar. It struck me then that death is so much a normal part of our existence and our journey, but for some reason, our society doesn’t seem to be open about it. I thought that was very interesting. It sounds dramatic to say but, of course, we are all gonna die. Yet it always seems shocking when someone we know passes. I thought, at the time, maybe there’s a better way for us to approach all this—but it was never in a goth kind of way or “life is so hard and I’m a tortured soul.” It’s more that this is part of life and everyone’s journey, so why don’t we explore it?

 

Did that attitude help your grieving process when your father died a few years ago?

I think it did. I tried to focus on the gift that I got to experience with my father in his life and the idea that I was fortunate to have him for fifty years. This was instead of focusing on him not being here anymore. Now, it’s certainly easier to say that than to make yourself feel that way—but I do try to think of life and death that way. We are lucky to have each other, and we don’t know how long we’re gonna have them in our life, so be grateful that they were here and sad because you lose them.

 

Well, after that loss and the divorce from your ex, producer Paul Young, you certainly gained a family—including a husband and six stepchildren to go with your own daughter. What does it mean to be a Kennedy?

Ummm . . . being a Kennedy is . . . (laughs) It’s normal and it’s extraordinary at the same time. It’s normal in that I married a great guy who has an amazing family and, at the same time, everybody has their struggles. (long pause)

 

I guess you have to weigh your words carefully.

I do, I really do! When it comes to the Kennedys, sometimes it’s all larger than life. A lot of people know who they are.

 

Aren’t you used to recognition yourself?

It was probably easier for me to adjust to being in the spotlight than someone who had never been recognized out in public before. Still, in a normal week, I’m playing Trivial Pursuit with my family, and the answer is: my husband’s uncle. So that gets weird! Every week there is something surreal.

 

So despite the obvious, what made Robert F. Kennedy Jr. the man you wanted to marry?

Bobby is one of the smartest, most intelligent people I’ve ever met. He’s funny—although I don’t think his public persona shows that because he talks about serious subjects a lot. I don’t know. It’s hard to talk about why you fall in love with someone. I have a good time with him, and he inspires me to be a better person. I always joke that my biggest fear is that we’ll be traveling in a Third World country, my appendix will burst, and he will remove it—because he’s very good at survival-type skills.

 

So did you learn anything about real marriage from your David marriage?

That’s a good question! I think the big idea of marriage is to pick and choose your battles. So, yes, I probably have learned to be more tolerant in my real marriage from being married to Larry David on screen. (giggles)

 

Do you foresee any of the kids going into politics?

I wouldn’t rule it out. It’s difficult to know now how they’re all going to shape into adults and what their aspirations may be. But they’re all very intelligent, and, certainly, politics is a part of their lifestyle. Almost all of our kids have volunteered in humanitarian ways, and they’re aware of civil justice and the fight for it. I think most kids aren’t really exposed to that sort of thing when they’re 13, 15, 18, so that gives ours a different awareness of the inner workings of policies maybe. Probably. But will they be passionate about it as adults? I don’t know.

 

Do you see your celebrity and family status as a platform to espouse your own political views? That’s a pretty formidable soapbox.

I’m definitely more aware of how my political views might be interpreted because I, personally, am in the public eye. Most of the time, though, I really don’t want to mix my political feelings with my acting career. They’re separate for me.

 

Okay, but say something you believed in was being threatened under the current administration. For example, Planned Parenthood?

I am pro-Planned Parenthood. And I would feel inspired to fight just as a citizen, as a mom, as a person who gets to vote in the United States. Yes, it’s an advantage if more people pay attention because I have a different platform. But at the same time, I understand that everyone has the choice to listen to the person they want to listen to and make their own decision.

 

Speaking of politics, this morning, President Trump inflamed women—and everyone, really—with his mockery of MSNBC personality Mika Brzezinski for having a facelift. For actresses, plastic surgery can be an especially fraught topic. As someone who works out three times a week and is also active in yoga and outdoor activities, where do you stand on nipping and tucking?

I’m not here to judge what someone does to make herself feel or look better. I know people who say, “Don’t do it! I would never do it!” And those people are 25! Meanwhile, the Kardashians have changed the world of plastic surgery to where they’ve made it almost chic. That’s strange, and I don’t know how much I like that trend. But I don’t care. I’m not gonna worry about it. People should do whatever they want.

 

No question, Curb is your best-known credit, alongside the sweet movie Waitress, and three seasons of the network sitcom Suburgatory. Is there a project you’re proud of that hasn’t gotten similar attention but you wish viewers would seek out?

There’s a quirky film called Bart Got a Room. William H. Macy plays my ex-husband in it, and it’s such an interesting, funny movie. We look ridiculous in it but we’re playing versions of real people.

 

Speaking of interesting and funny, you also got to work with the late Robin Williams on the 2006 comedy, RV. Any memories?

Robin was a very intelligent, creative, magnetic soul. And he really appreciated people. When he’d walk down the street and somebody would come up to him, he would act like that was the first time anybody had asked him for his autograph. He was kind to them because he knew that it was important to them at that moment. That’s who Robin was. He appreciated people and was just a very generous soul.

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HINES IN A FEW LINES

Recent books you’ve read?

This circles back to death and dying again, but Where the Dead Pause, and the Japanese Say Goodbye: A Journey (Marie Mutsuki Mockett). Also, I just started re-reading Nick Hornby’s How to be Good. It’s one of my favorite books.

What’s on your iPod?

I listen to a lot of hip-hop—just to work out to, and my daughter likes it. I like Beyoncé—who doesn’t? Also, Chance the Rapper because it’s my daughter’s type of music, and we do a lot together.

Favorite vacation spot?

I really liked the Turks and Caicos when I went there. The water was so beautiful, warm, and clear. I’d like to go back there.

Favorite actor?

Mary Tyler Moore really influenced me. She was always so funny and authentic. That really inspired me to want to be like her.

TV shows you watch for fun?
Ray Donovan, Veep, and, well, I don’t like to talk about it openly, but I really love Dancing with the Stars. My daughter laughs at me because I cry at every episode because they’re trying so hard.

Would you ever be on it?

That’s a good question. It certainly sounds fun to me. But my acting career might get in the way.

Favorite Meal?

On the perfect night, I would have a California roll and a spicy edamame. Not exciting, but it’s the truth. I’m on the verge of being a vegetarian, but I still like bacon. So if I’m having a salad, I like bacon bits. I don’t know what that says about me, my dedication, or my personality, but I’m sure it’s not good!

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BYLINE:

David Lefkowitz is an adjunct professor of English at the University of Northern Colorado. He also co-publishes Performing Arts Insider (TotalTheater.com) and hosts Dave’s Gone By (davesgoneby.com) on UNC Radio. To read bunches of his plays, articles, and songs, visit https://davelefkowitzwriting.wordpress.com/

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NON-FICTION – FEATURE STORY PROFILE: Curb Your Ensusiessman (Susie Essman)

CURB YOUR ENSUSIESSMAN

The Comedienne Speaks Out on Being Fair – and Foul

by Dave Lefkowitz

(This article first appeared in Long Island Woman, Dec. 2008.)

 

Gentility.  Self-control.  Soccer mom and devoted daughter.  Newlywed.

These words might fit a lot of women, but you’d be hard-pressed to use them to describe comedian and actress Susie Essman – that is, until you meet her in person. That’s when you have to reconcile this smiling, tastefully dressed and sparkling-eyed Susie with the Susie she plays so memorably on HBO’s “Curb Your Enthusiasm.”

If you’ve seen the show even once, you’re probably smiling already at a memory of Susie Green lacing into her sneaky, corpulent husband, Jeff, with a level of scathing invective that would make George Carlin blush and send Don Rickles into therapy.  Of course there’s a little Susie Essman in Susie Greene, but my expectations (or hopes) of being verbally thrashed were soon dashed.  Jeff Greene would feel lucky to be married to the attractive and downright nice woman facing me at our window table at Le Monde on Manhattan’s Upper West Side. I, however, couldn’t help but be a smidgen sad that the Susie freely answering my questions while sniffling through a headcold and sipping vegetarian soup was not going to thrust her finger in my forehead and call me a fat fuck.

“My stand-up comedy has always been kinda blue,” Essman notes, “But in real life, people are disappointed when they meet me.  I see people on the street, they’ll be very gracious, and I’ll say something very nice back. But they’re visibly disappointed because they want me to be yelling and screaming and cursing.  My theory about Susie Greene is that although people respond to the cursing, they’re really responding to her comfort with her anger. She’s completely reactive and has no censor.  There’s something very liberating about that, which is why all wives love that character.  I give them that release.  And I feel liberated by it as well.”

Proudly, Essman takes credit for the evolution of Jeff’s wife from a peripheral character to the most reliably explosive presence on “Curb.”  “In the beginning, Larry David had done an hour special for HBO, and they asked him to do a series from that.  Jeff’s wife existed, but she wasn’t in it.  In fact, that first season, I was in three episodes, and in two of them, I was an innocuous nothing.  But one show, `The Wire,’ has Jeff letting a Fresh Air Fund kid into our house, and he robs us blind. Larry wanted Jeff’s wife to just scream and curse and rip him a new one, which was the direction he gave me. So I went crazy on him.”

Continues Essman, “And we never discussed the character, ever.  We just started playing, and it evolved in a dialogue of the unconscious.  A very organic process.  Instinctually, I came up with how she dresses from a composite of people. And Larry realized he could make Susie’s anger a character `thing.’  I mean, from the start, Larry knew he wanted a woman who was facile with language.  He cast me after seeing me on the Friar’s Roast for Jerry Stiller on Comedy Central.

“The funniest part is that I’ve known Larry and Jeff [Garlin] for years,” adds Essman, “and in that scene in `The Wire,’ Larry just kept telling me, `go further, go further!’ – and I was going pretty far. But he pulled me aside and said, `I really want you angry. Make fun of Jeff’s fat.’ I said, `Larry, I can’t do that; Jeff’s my friend.  I don’t wanna make fun; it’s not nice.’ I never like to make fun of anything physical on somebody. But he said, `go `head! He knows you’re acting. Just do it.’ And thus the fat fuck was born.”

Essman, 53, was born in Manhattan and raised in Mount Vernon, perhaps another surprise for those who hear in Susie Greene the squawk of a middle-aged, transplanted Long Island termagant. “I know a million people from Long Island, and I’ve probably worked every Jewish country club on Long Island, but no, I’m from Westchester. And I was not brought up religiously at all.”  Her father, a doctor, died in 2001 of esophageal cancer, but her mom is still going relatively strong at age 83. “She’s healthy and she looks incredible, but she’s complicated. She still finds every possible thing to complain about you could imagine.  Still, she looked gorgeous at the wedding.”

The wedding to which Essman refers was her own.  Just four days prior to our lunchtime chat, Essman had married her longtime boyfriend, commercial real-estate broker Jim Harder. “I planned my wedding in three days,” Essman laughs. “It was at the Friar’s Club, with the ceremony in the George Burns Room and the reception in the Milton Berle Room.” Asked which comedians attended, Essman replied, “none, it was just family. But Jimmy is Catholic, so he’s one of nine. Which means `just family’ adds up.”

Since this is Essman’s first walk down the aisle, it’s only natural to ask why now? – especially since this union came with an instant family: four teenagers from Harder’s previous marriage.  “Timing is everything,” explains Essman. “Jimmy and I dated for five years, but if I’d met him ten years earlier, I probably wouldn’t have been able to handle the kids. Even now, it can be weird.  I went from being this hip New York single comedian to being a soccer mom overnight.  I always thought I was so cool.  But once you have teenagers, you’re an idiot.  I was the queen of the eye rollers, and now they roll their eyes at me.  It’s unbelievable.”

Of course, Essman is quick to say she loves the kids and being their stepmom, and points out the best silver lining of all: “You gotta get your material somewhere.  And teenagers are like mentally ill people with car keys.”

More seriously, the comedienne stresses the importance of guiding the kids toward their passions. “I want to be that role model for them. Everybody told me, `what do you mean you’re gonna be a comedian? That’s ridiculous! You can’t make a living.’  Well, when my stepdaughter was in high school, her guidance counselor told her not to apply to F.I.T. because she couldn’t get in. I would see her getting C’s in chemistry but staying up till six o’clock in the morning hand-sewing beads on something.  So I encouraged her and told her, `don’t listen to these people.’  Now she’s at F.I.T. in fashion design, and she couldn’t be happier.”

Actually, it was other people’s advice that pushed Essman into stand-up comedy to begin with. “One year for Chanukah – or, if I may re-phrase that, one year for Chhhhhhhhhhhanukah – my older sister got a little reel-to-reel tape recorder, which I co-opted from her.  I started doing talk shows.  I’d walk around interviewing everybody thinking I was Johnny Carson.  Or I was writing plays and song parodies, standing on the kitchen table performing them for my brother.  He’d come home with his friends after school – I think they would all smoke pot, I’m not sure – and they’d be like, `Let’s get your sister in here to perform for us!’”

“I didn’t know from stand-up comedy,” Essman continues. “I used to watch `The Ed Sullivan Show’ and see these guys get up and tell jokes. Alan King, Jackie Mason, Jackie Vernon – they were funny, but it seemed very male and didn’t relate to me at all.  I wanted to be like Carol Burnett and do character stuff.”  But, for a time, spotlights took a backseat to burning the midnight oil.  “I graduated as an Urban Studies major from SUNY College at Purchase, applied to law school, got in, didn’t want to go, thought about going into political journalism and started taking acting classes, instead. But those weren’t fulfilling, so I went into a funk and a depression and…waitressing.  And that was only bearable because I would go back into the kitchen and imitate all the customers.”

Which is when her co-workers suggested she try an open-mic night.  “I was scared out of my mind.  I wrote five minutes which I ended up doing in two and a half because I was so nervous. But two guys in the audience came over and said `we’re opening a club in a couple of months – Comedy U.  We’d like you to come work for us.’  This was after my first performance.  I gave them my number, but I never got onstage again, `cause I was scared to death. But a couple of months later they called and said, `Hi, remember us? We opened the club. Come down and do ten minutes.’ So I sat around with some friends and wrote some new stuff, which was successful, so they said, `we want you to work on Thursday nights, our “all-women’s night”.’  And that’s where I met Joy Behar, Rita Rudner… Eventually, they gave me my first weekend spot, paying me 20 dollars.  I still have that $20 bill.”

Essman fondly recalls those early days for other reasons.  “It was a great downtown Village audience.  All NYU kids and gay guys.  I got tons of stage time in a very protective environment – unlike the uptown clubs which were incredibly competitive. After about two months, I remember standing in the backstage of Comedy U and saying, `this is exactly what I was meant to do with my life.’”

Pretty soon, she did move uptown, opening for the likes of Richard Belzer and Gilbert Gottfried. “There used to be posters all over town.  I remember I was in the Village, and I saw Gilbert’s poster.  I looked down, and in big block letters it said, `Opening Act: Susie Essman.’  Standing in Sheridan Square, I burst into tears.  I was really a comedian.”

Now she’s a comedian, actress, wife, mom and something of a feminist icon.  How does she manage all that?  “It helps that I’ve always been extremely health conscious,” Essman notes.  “I started doing yoga when I was 16 and became a vegetarian many years ago.  I believe that old Adelle Davis thing, `you are what you eat.’  Without sounding trite or too pretentious, my body is my instrument, and I like it when I feel lighter.  I do all the annoying things you have to do at my age, like getting a mammogram every year, because you have to take care of yourself with preventive medicine, both regular and alternative. And exercise is so important.”

She’s also careful to keep her lifestyle reasonable.  “I don’t go on the road that much – never did. But thanks to `Curb’ and all those years of paying my dues, I can command a lot of money for doing stand-up.  Thank God, because I’ve got kids to put through college!”

As we exit Le Monde, the fan in me takes over and asks Essman for both an autograph and – “for my wife” – just one little insult about me spoken into my tape recorder.  I braced for her now-famous “Curb” phrase, only to be regaled by a variant: “Sweetie, you are married to a Jew-faced fuck.  I’d say it louder but we’re in a restaurant.”  Bliss.

SIDEBAR

On temptation: Every now and then, I want a bacon cheeseburger. But I wouldn’t dare, because I’m afraid of what it would do to my body.

On being on: I don’t try to be funny most of the time. I’m not “on.” How many times in this conversation have I tried to be funny? Not that much.

The honeymoon: We’re waiting until December because we’re just too busy. But we’ll go somewhere relaxing and nice. Probably Miami Beach. It’s one of our favorite places.

Her first big role: 1988’s “Punchline,” playing Sally Field’s coach. “They flew me out to L.A., and I worked on the movie for five months. All of a sudden I’m on a movie set with Tom Hanks and hanging out in Sally’s house with the Oscars there. That was kinda cool.”

Her mantra: Focus on the art, and the rest will come.

Her scariest warning (from a New York Times interview): I’m usually nice, but if you push me, I can go Susie Greene on you.

– 30 –

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